Irwin Allen's THE TOWERING INFERNO

Ian

It's movie time once again. I've had, we've got movie sign .

Matthew

I've had you watch a movie

Ian

Yes. Quite, quite a spectacular movie in terms of, or a spectacle of a movie, I must say.

Matthew

Very much. This was very much done as a spectacle in the first half of the 1970s. The more we do this podcast, the more I'm showing you things that are connected more and more strongly to other things that we have talked about. Yeah,

Ian

this one's, yeah, this one's a very, very key sibling to another movie we've talked about, I feel.

Matthew

It is. For example, we've talked now about a whole bunch of different movies by John Carpenter. Just because they had such an impact on me. This is a movie that brings us back to Irwin Allen.

Ian

Yes!

Matthew

And we've talked about Irwin Allen in a few different contexts. We started out with Lost in Space. His Sci fi show that went from drama to kids show against his will we also talked about voyage to the bottom of the sea Yeah, both the movie version and the TV series And almost a year ago, just about a year ago now, we talked about what brought him into the 70s, and that was the Poseidon Adventure.

Ian

Okay, so that means I've got a pitch for you. Okay.

Matthew

Okay.

Ian

Okay, how about the Poseidon Adventure, but we replace all the water With fire!

Matthew

That is not a terrible description of the premise of this movie, The Towering Inferno.

Ian

Yes.

Matthew

This came out in 1974, two years after The Poseidon Adventure. And I saw it in theaters when it came out.

Ian

Two years after means it probably started production pretty soon after The Poseidon Adventure was shown to have done well.

Matthew

I think so, and this really solidified Irwin Allen's reputation as the master of disaster, as he was being called. Because we have this, we have the Poseidon Adventure, you go back a decade, you've got The Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea movie with the sky catching on fire.

Ian

I'm sorry, the Master of Disaster is a title that you can only earn by doing something really well or doing something really poorly. There is no mid ground on that title.

Matthew

Yeah, if you have that title and you are not a film producer or a first responder, things are not going well.

Ian

Exactly.

Matthew

Oh, and since we've As you described it, we had a movie about water. We had then a disaster movie about fire. Where are his disaster movies about earth and air?

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

They might be out there. I've got to do some research. Yeah. But they don't occur to check

Ian

about his stuff. Hmm. Does the sky catching on fire count as air? Hmm.

Matthew

Oh, you know, it might. It might.

Ian

It might.

Matthew

So maybe, ironically, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea may be his air movie.

Ian

Oh, oh, wait, no, no. He did Five Weeks in a Balloon. That might be Oh, that's right. I don't know if that was a disaster, but Not quite a disaster film, but still.

Matthew

That definitely counts as air.

Ian

So, The Towering Inferno.

Matthew

It makes sense to compare this to the Poseidon Adventure, but there are some really interesting differences, which I think are going to affect the way we talk about this movie.

Ian

Yes.

Matthew

Because the Poseidon Adventure was a very straightforward plot. It was literally a journey.

Ian

Mm hmm.

Matthew

Where we had people in one place in the ship. They had the courage to go somewhere else and they had to journey through the entire ship to get to a place where they might be rescued. There is really no kind of straightforward plot in the Towering Inferno.

Ian

No. Yeah, the Towering Inferno. It's, it is structured more like an episode of a different show that we've covered on this, Thunderbirds. It is a rescue disaster story.

Matthew

Very much. It is rescue fiction.

Ian

It is rescue fiction, but it is rescue fiction given the disaster grandeur of things that Irwin Allen had done before in that grand emotions, traumatic turns plans and attempts that falter. There's something very, classical trials almost in some ways, but this is not a journey from A to B. It is a journey out of A, get out of A. How can you get out of A? Oh no. B is just safety. There's no, there's no transit in that sense.

Matthew

That's absolutely right, the way you've talked about the structure of this. They set us up with an idea of this big disaster. We get a little bit of character work at the beginning as they, they set it up. And then they just show us all these vignettes, little groups of characters, to see what's happening with them. But there's no forward movement of an overall plot. Eventually the movie has met its runtime and there is a sequence at the end that resolves the disaster for those who survive.

Ian

This is one of those movies that I knew about a little. A lot of stuff I pick up via cultural osmosis as the the listeners of our show might have been able to understand the internet has done an interesting thing where a lot of people's references were all amalgamed into one location and then distributed randomly. And that means I've picked up little bits of people calling back to things I'd never seen. And I feel like the idea of the giant skyscraper that catches on fire is something I've run into a couple of times. And there might even be certain of those vignettes you're describing, I've seen homaged or reference in other bits, but never in a, this is a towering Inferno reference, or you should go see the towering Inferno.

It's always been a, you know, that thing that everyone knows about. I'm doing a bit on that. And I'm seeing a lot of those bits. having had their origins or at very least being part of a chain that the towering Inferno is part of.

Matthew

Without comparing Irwin Allen to William Shakespeare, although that is a term paper I would have written in high school, without comparing Irwin Allen to William Shakespeare, William Shakespeare is such a fixture. His work is such a fixture in English language culture around the world that millions of people. Understand references to Shakespeare having never read or seen his plays. In the same way, it seems like your generation understands these references to 60s and 70s and 80s culture that you've never had direct exposure to.

And don't necessarily know that this is where this came from until someone forces you to watch an old movie.

Ian

Exactly. Do you wire my building at me, sir? Why, yes, I do.

Matthew

Oh, now I want to see that version.

Ian

Oh, yeah.

Matthew

Hey, he was a commercial artist. If If Shakespeare could have done big disaster spectacles on stage, He probably would have found somebody to work with to do it.

Ian

Oh, no, that's just There's a whole, there's a, There's an entire rabbit hole I could dive down on that. Not right, but not right now.

Matthew

Oh, yes.

Ian

Yes. Oh, goodness. But yes, this definitely this starts out setting up everybody and having that vignette structure is so right. There's something almost TV show about this in some ways, there were distinct parts while watching this movie, I could pause and go get some popcorn or something. And I didn't ruin the pacing because it has a good structure in terms of like tension, breathe, tension, breathe. It's not purely a vertical ramp. It is depths. It is levels. There's progress and there's backsliding.

Matthew

Right. The flip side of it being those vignettes is the fact that you can treat it as something episodic. And you're not losing that momentum, as you say. And it's interesting that you compare it to a TV series because it shares something else in common with what became popular with a certain kind of TV series in the 1970s. And that is the cast, the absolutely stacked cast. with big stars who are a little bit past their prime, or sometimes more than a little bit.

And there's a lot of TV shows, most of them I don't think I've really shown you much of that kind of thing yet in terms of like The Love Boat, for example. But these being a vehicle for, for stars that were super recognizable but were no longer at the height of their career. This is very much that kind of cast. One thing that's notable about it is this is a movie that features both Paul Newman and Steve McQueen.

Ian

Yeah!

Matthew

Two big stars and I don't believe they had ever worked together before. And just seeing them on screen together was kind of exciting.

Ian

And, and they're playing! Characters that, I'm trying to remember, their, their characters are kind of each important in their own sections and they kind of bounce off of each other at various times because of that?

Matthew

Right, there's a little bit of friction, especially at first, but eventually these are our dual protagonists who are both working for the same thing from each, each from his area of expertise. Paul Newman is playing Doug Roberts, who is the architect. of this new building. It's just opened. It's about to have its formal dedication. It is the glass tower and it is now the largest building in the world. It's this 138 story building in San Francisco. And when things go wrong, we then meet Steve McQueen's character, who is chief O'Halloran, Who's a battalion chief with the San Francisco Fire Department, and he takes the lead in fighting this fire that, of course, breaks out in the giant building that's just opened.

Ian

I will point out that this is a story about the world's tallest building at 1, 688 feet. We now live 50 years after this movie came out.

Matthew

Yes, we do.

Ian

And we have things like the Burj Khalifa at 2, 717 feet. I mean, this building is, and for something on American soil, this is smaller than the current One World Trade Center building. By about a hundred feet. So, there's something about the, the scale and scope that is really, really impressive in the movie. They do a great job kind of showing this, I almost want to say futurism of this grand, giant building idea, but there's a weird amount of It's not Fridge Logic, it's not Fridge Horror, it's like Fridge Age, where after seeing this and then it's the classic idea, you go get a snack at the end of the night, and you're like, hey, wait a minute, I'm here going, hey, wait a minute, that building's not as big as they say it is, compared to what I could go see now.

Matthew

, it was at the time kind of a cutting edge techno thriller in that it was really about things that were on the edge of architecture and also of firefighting. And yet now it is so much a period piece. It's, oh yeah, they're, they're dealing with what was the most amazing thing in 1974.

Ian

Right. And that's something that we got kind of acknowledge in terms of how this is going to approach it because that almost sci fi element at times where it is the best and the and the grandest going wrong and going right is kind of a key through line. Yeah.

Matthew

And because it is such a big environment, and it is such a, a widespread disaster that we're seeing, even though it's all in one structure, that's what gives us the opportunity to see all these different vignettes with different groups of people, who aren't physically that far away from each other, but they're in totally different worlds in terms of what crisis they are dealing with. And, and we talked about the, the two leads, Steve McQueen and Paul Newman. They're just the beginning of this cast. We've also got William Holden as the building developer. Faye Dunaway as the wife of Paul Newman's character. Fred Astaire in this interesting little side story about a con man. Yeah!

Ian

That felt like an episode of a completely different show that got caught in the middle of this, which actually helped.

Matthew

Yes, you could absolutely have dropped that into the love boat and it would have fit. And it's like

Ian

we we interrupt your episode of the love boat with burning

Matthew

And and richard chamberlain playing simmons the the electrical contract head for the building Playing a bad guy. I don't know that I've seen Richard Chamberlain play bad guys that often, but he was pretty good. And just based upon what we have watched together recently, I kept seeing him as the, the yuppie character from Aliens. Yes. In a movie from 10 years earlier. You're right. The the business bro, cutting corners is how we make money. And yeah, he was the electrical guy and he cut corners in the giant building.

Surprise, there's fire. Surprise. And it turned out that he wasn't the only contractor who cut corners to save money on this enormous and expensive project. But His cutting corners had the biggest direct impact because we get early on concerns about wiring being wrong and Doug, the architect, is trying to call off the big party at the building that is going to be celebrating its inauguration, and of course, the developer and the mayor and everybody else involved, they don't want to delay anything.

This is an important event. And it's an expensive event. We've got to get going. So they bring hundreds of people into the building. And after the mayor. Yeah. Yeah. And a senator. And after the big ribbon cutting down in the plaza, the party moves to the the penthouse club at the very top of the building.

Ian

Honestly, this is like the sort of party where if it was just a few years later, this would be the sort of events that Secretary of Defense David Bryce would be at and things would go wrong.

Matthew

Yes, absolutely right.

Ian

This is the same sort of party we say in No Way Out in that sense. Yep. But yeah, we've got this giant party going on, and we've also, I love the walkthrough we get. Because we kind of meet in the lobby and go up as this party is being prepped. But we get to hear about all the different layers and floors, because this is more like multiple districts of the city, stacked on top of each other to make this.

There are commercial businesses on the lower floors. There are, grand event spaces up above, and in between each of these, like the cream in this multi floor oreo, are apartment buildings of all different levels and qualities and types. So there's smaller regular apartments, there's like hotel room apartments there's grand penthouses, all of these different varieties hitting each other and coming in contact, which makes the, the disaster more impactful because you, you kind of never know what you're going to get on each floor.

Matthew

And it also means there are people in different situations. and different social strata who were involved. And I think they do a very good job of establishing the things that you just described, compared to, say, the Poseidon Adventure. In the Poseidon Adventure, so much of our, our engineering exposition, for lack of a better term, comes from the fact that we've got a kid who's obsessed with the ship and has learned all the facts about it and won't stop telling people all the facts about the ship.

It's believable as an info dump, but it's an info dump and it's done a little more smoothly here where we're seeing characters introduced and we're seeing relationships develop and at the same time we're getting a sense of where things are, the strange vertical geography of the building and it's a little more seamless where later on we realize we, or we, without realizing it, we know something we need to know in order to appreciate the scene that's happening.

Because they cleverly informed us of that 30 minutes before.

Ian

Exactly. There's a Chekhov's Armory presented of things about this building and you never know, not what's going to go off, but which of them and in what order because of this variety. Yep.

Matthew

And. It's kind of literally a slow burn thriller in that early on there are some like minor electrical things that alert the architect and others to the problems, but there's also a fire that breaks out in a supply room, and it's burning away in this supply room for a while before it's a discovered and B. Someone opens the door and unleashes it into the hallway, and it starts consuming the building.

Ian

There's something wild about the fact that we get to see this little moment. This tiny, this tiny thing that causes The, the whole event so, so much earlier than anyone else, because it means you get to sit there and watch the second half of all the setup with that tension building in you, the audience, from way before any other characters know they're in danger. You kind of want to yell at the screen like get out. There's a thing I should have I knew it from the poster but now I've seen it get out. Yeah.

Matthew

And there are a few things like that that we kind of get from what I think of as the building's point of view. Sometimes it's just you know, om omniscient camera seeing something that no people are seeing. But then there's also, there are people in the security center at the building. And speaking of cast, the chief of security is played by O. J. Simpson. I'm not going to mention any more about that, but, but we also see them and their conversations, some of the engineering conversations behind the scenes of the building are interesting because they help tell us what should be connected to what.

How things are related and why this problem is a bigger problem than it might seem like. We've got electrical problems, but those are interfering with the, the monitors. And the sprinkler system has been installed, but it's not working yet. And all of these details, it's not quite a perfect storm of problems. But they all stem from the same cost cutting. And it's like there was a feeling where we just have to get through this inauguration night, this unveiling, and then we can fix all those details. And they didn't have that one night to spare.

Ian

Yeah, definitely. This is a story in which the, the, the glass tower, as it's called, has a personality. It's it's an entity all in its own and it is a character who is doomed to die but you kind of you kind of get to to meet it and Bemoan it and see it go

Matthew

and whether the building is A victim or an antagonist depends on what character you're following and which of these vignettes you're in because Doug, the architect, he's proud of what he designed and he's furious that the people who built it did not build it in a safe way, didn't follow his specifications and he, they, the response that he gets from the builder or from the contractor are, well, we build everything up to code.

And his point was, nothing like this has ever been built before. Code is not good enough. I put these safety measures and this kind of conduit and all this stuff in there for a reason. And he is upset that his creation was set up to fail. And then there's the, the fire chief who His point is, it is ridiculous to build things this big. Yes. A great line at the beginning when he's, he's kind of mad at the architect for having designed this

before they joined forces.

Ian

He's just like, this is folly. Right. I am an agent of hubris and I am, and I am saying I told you so while saving your life. Yes.

Matthew

And his, this sobering line that you guys know there is no way to effectively fight a fire above seven stories. Yes. And you keep building these things bigger.

Ian

That line is just so, so wrenching because of that. It's like, ooh.

Matthew

Yeah, how many, we're going orders of magnitude bigger than you say is safe. And yet, you can't, I guess the response would be, then let's figure out ways to make them safe. And there's some conversation about that towards the end. We're not going to stop progressing because some of our progress is not as safe as it was. That's not the main point of this movie. The main point of this movie is about greed and hubris and it demonstrates that pretty well.

Ian

Yeah. It demonstrates that pretty well.

Matthew

So what are some of the other kind of groups or vignettes we follow? We've certainly got all the firefighters, and those are being led by The battalion chief.

Ian

We've got the firefighters. We've got I almost the party guests are a place and a mob, but not a per a group specifically. But inside that is where we've got all these characters who are at the big party to make this show. And they are, the emblems of the people who are trapped.

Matthew

And Roberts ends up there, but he doesn't spend most of the movie there. He is more than any other character, somebody who moves around a lot within this environment. And kind of establishing the fact this building is his, he designed it, and he gets to move around it in this story. But you're right the group that we focus on maybe the most, and certainly the most at the end, is this party up in the at the top of the building.

Ian

And developer James Duncan there.

Matthew

The evil yuppie Richard Chamberlain is there. Who's married to the developer's daughter and who's hitting on the architect's wife. Yeah. Oh, and, and of course, this is the, the architect's last hurrah because he's planning to retire and move to Montana once this is done.

Ian

So this is his, you know, his last big thing, go out with a grand action so that he can feel good about that. But there's a bit of, there's a bit of question at the end as to whether or not that's what it'll do. I wonder, right?

Matthew

Most of the people who are, they're, they're rich and important and we have seen them before and they are stuck in the top of this building and they, they don't get to do as much for much of the movie, but we keep coming back to them as the movie. The reaction, the potential victims, the characters who are trapped, and therefore it becomes a little cauldron of character conflict.

Ian

We've got Lizalette who's being wooed by the con man.

Matthew

Right, and they're among the people up there.

Ian

Mm hmm. And there's a deaf mother and her two children. On the 87th floor.

Matthew

Lizalette who is the, the, the target of the con man's scheme is also the neighbor and like art teacher for this family and she goes down to rescue this family because there are no functioning fire alarms for those without hearing. And that's what gets both O. J. Simpson and Paul Newman's characters. On to this floor in the middle of the fire, because they, they see this on the security monitors and realize what's happening. I believe this is the point at which they literally save the cat also?

Ian

I believe this is. They literally do save the cat.

Matthew

They have to save the cat.

Ian

They have to s I mean, I'm glad. Save that cat. But, also, I, I, I, I did the whole thing for it's like, Oi! It's the thing! They're I'll tell you what. They did the thing! The writers are happy! But, yeah, we, They, they become kind of imperiled in different locations, which gives the firefighters a different challenge to rescue them.

Matthew

The mother is unconscious, and the, and the, the head of security takes her off, and meanwhile, Doug is there rescuing the kids, And then it winds up being the two kids and Liselette and Doug, they're taking the closest thing this movie has to the kind of journey we see in the Poseidon adventure. Because they're trying to figure out a safe path. They realize they can't get any, any lower and they wind up trying to go down stairs that turn out to collapse as gas lines explode. And eventually they have to go around and about and find a different Staircase and go back up so they wind up by the end of the movie.

They are up at the At the party.

Ian

I'm also I'm trying to think of the order of what happens to the party itself though Because that is so wild as they hear about things. It's you know, hey, we're gonna tell everyone to move down to the next floor Then we learn that the elevators are not safe. Then we try to use the stairs, but the stairs door is blocked.

Matthew

There's one thing about the elevators. They, there are a bunch of different elevators. There are some interior elevators. There's also a panoramic elevator outside. And there's something about the interior elevators where they will stop on a floor that's on fire.

Ian

I was going to mention that too. Why?

Matthew

That doesn't sound like good design from a safety point of view.

Ian

I mean, are you, are they impl Mm. See, my mind is like, I can explain that. There's tech that explains that. And then I'm saying, but that, that's me fixing their plot hole? It's like, oh, don't worry, like, like, if they'd said we used infrared sensors to, to make it a buttonless elevator system, I'd be like, you know what? You did fine. You gave a reason why this is a bad idea that opens the door for fire. You didn't say that. I'm having to retcon that in. And it does result in some of the most terrifying deaths in the movie, I will say.

Matthew

Yes, those are some of the most shocking and it's fairly early in the disaster part of the movie and it helps establish the stakes. You know, the, the things are really bad and people are dying and And it's because people insist on getting on the elevator even after they're told no, you've got to go over to the other elevator. You can't use this one because it's going to stop on the floor that's on fire.

And people get in anyway.

Ian

Yeah, Mr. Duncans, they're like, don't get on it. And then people rush past him. They shove their way into the elevator. And then we watch as Jim Duncan panicking, wants to save these people, he's hammering on the button to call the elevator back and it doesn't work, because it's already headed down. And then we watch as the firefighters down there fighting the fire, see the elevator on the other side of the hall open. This burst of fresh air ignites a fireball. The people start screaming and then the elevator doors close. And the horrifying thing is the elevator coming back up to the party floor, responding to Jim Duncan's button press.

Matthew

Yes.

Ian

And opening with a gout of flame and the one person still partially alive stumbling out and charred. Yep. That is disturbing.

Matthew

It is is very shocking. imagery. And it also, it's one of the tropes we see in disaster movies repeatedly, which is the, the punishment of the selfish, the people who are willing to push others out of the way and, you know, grab onto an attempt at survival, even if it means other people are going to perish, they wind up being the people who are, are killed first because their folly leads them to ignore the smart people and to ignore the fact that we're trying to build a little bit of a society and, and work together about this.

And they, they pay that price. It's a little morality play built in to so many of these disaster movies.

Ian

Oh, yeah. The, a lot of the movie gets way more, way wilder, I feel, when, when all of the internal paths are no longer available and the fire and rescue who get support from the Air Force because of just it's the Air Force or the Navy? It's

Matthew

the Navy. The U. S. Navy comes in because they've got a lot of great helicopters.

Ian

Oh, and they're in San Francisco because so, Navy air support just because the people are so high up and the outside air rescue stuff is, I think, some of the most dramatic. The other parts were terrifying and horrific. This is the most dramatic.

Matthew

Yes, and it adds that additional layer of technology to this technology based disaster movie. And now we're dealing with helicopters, and we're dealing with the fact that the winds make flying helicopters near the top of this building very dangerous. And I think those winds are because of the fire, also because you're near the ocean, you're near the bay in San Francisco.

Ian

And we see this fire start spreading more, of course, as more things fail, as things go. It starts out as we've got one fire in a room. Now it turns into we've got a floor on fire. Yeah. And then, as the movie's going, entire floors are bursting into flame, blasting out their windows. The entire building starts becoming a, a clock, as more of it goes, as more of it is consumed by the flames.

Matthew

I wish they explained that a little bit better than they did, why it was suddenly consuming what floors it was, because they were showing it as starting in one place, and, Climbing, as fires do. And yet, it seemed to skip floors, and then it would suddenly burst up in another floor. And I can understand there might be explanations for that, in terms of where the elevators have been moved, what ventilation paths the fire found to spread.

But, regardless of how it happened, I was kind of shocked, seeing on screen, once again, after all these years, that iconic image of this glass tower. This exterior image from a low angle, this glass tower with these giant gouts of flames suddenly emerging from floors on either side of it. That is, it was used in the posters, it was used in so much promotion, and it's still such an impressive image.

Ian

Mm hmm. Yeah, the Navy air support , they are trying to get helicopters onto the roof. The helicopter is another one of those, hubristic tragic moments where a helicopter rescue is trying to land and two ladies from the party panically running out there like, Oh, no, save us, save us weaving, run onto the helipad. force the helicopter in doing so to change direction, otherwise it'll crush them. And instead he collides into the side of the building and the helicopter explodes, which ignites another fire on top of the flaming building. And it is this, if they'd waited just a moment, they could have avoided this, but they have just Not just stopped one of the methods not just delayed They have killed another person and made the situation worse for everybody in their hubris in that sense

Matthew

It raises that stakes suddenly. It's not just the punishment of the selfish It's the consequences of that selfishness also kills others not just the people who were selfish though. Yes threatens and harms the people who are trying to help And you're right, it cuts off this one avenue of escape that they've been working on, and they had drawn lots as to the order in which people are going to get out on this helicopter.

And these were people in the first group. If they had been a tiny bit more patient, they would have been out of this building before anybody else. And yet they couldn't contain themselves. They had to rush out onto the the rooftop and get in the helicopter's way.

Ian

So that leaves not a lot of options. The best option they go from there if I remember is the Is that the cross building zipline?

Matthew

Right. They create a breaches buoy from this tower to a somewhat shorter tower across the way. And the Navy, of course, helps with that. And by this time, Doug and the kids and Lissette are all up there in the party. An interesting way they had to get back in because they had to find other staircases and eventually get where they were going. And there was another staircase that people had planned to use to get out of the building. Party room even though it was going to be a long walk down and the door wouldn't open And then, a little bit later, we see from the other side, as Doug and the kids and Lysette get there, why it won't open.

Because someone spilled a wheelbarrow of concrete behind the door.

Ian

Which is the, like, that, that was the one moment where it felt like the game master for this. tabletop session just panicked. Yeah. Grabbed a random. That was the most ridiculous reason.

Matthew

Corner cutting is one thing, but just spilling a, a barrow full of concrete and leaving it there to set and harden rather than doing anything to clean it up. That's more than cost cutting. Yeah. And, but it's important that that happens though, because it establishes something That becomes important later on. We've been following, in addition to Halloran, we've been following some of the other firefighters, including firefighters who have been sent up to the party room, and they're part of the Climbing these stairs on foot, and another gas explosion blows out the, the stairs behind them, so they know they can't get back down that way, and they wind up at the same door with the concrete in the way, and we find out that, oh, they have C4.

That's part of the firefighter's toolkit, and they blast away the concrete with the C4 and wind up getting into the party room.

Speaker 6

Yep.

Ian

And that helps some people escape, if I remember correctly.

Matthew

Well, they can't get down that way because the, the staircase had blown out behind the firefighters. But at least now they've got some firefighters there to help organize things, and between them, And Doug, who's Paul Newman, he's the natural leader character. He's part of that. And they've already drawn lots for the order of of Exit and of course it starts with women and children and then then the men.

Ian

Yep They're sending everyone down one by as one by one via the this The breaches buoy over to the adjacent building which does get a lot of people out.

Matthew

It does and It's all the women and children out. I believe and Well, no, not entirely. They also they also managed to use the exterior panoramic elevator.

Speaker 6

Yes. And

Matthew

Lisette and the kids and some of the other women who were are kind of high on the list of the exit order. They take that and that leads to a whole other iconic disaster within a disaster as explosions in the building throw the panoramic elevator off of its tracks.

Ian

And so now it's dangling by one cable in the air with believe two of our firefighters clinging to the side.

Matthew

Right. One of the firefighters was there to kind of lead that group down, one of the ones who had made it into the party. And then O'Halloran goes up there on a line from the helicopter winch to hook that to the elevator car. And Also, hold on for dear life to the other firefighter who's almost fallen. And, also, this is where we lose Lisette. Yeah. The glass at this panoramic elevator breaks and she falls out.

Ian

Yep.

Matthew

Terrible scene. So. Terrible scene. There, it's almost as if there, it's timed. You've, you've got to have every certain number of minutes in a movie like this, the death of someone who we've gotten to know, to keep the stakes high and to keep in front of your mind nobody is safe.

Ian

And, and just before this, they'd set up as Our con man, played by Fred Astaire, who had been wooing her as a target, but then honestly started to fall for her, reveals his true identity, and she says she doesn't care, and would still love to date him. be with him when this is all over. And then she passed. It's like,

Matthew

oh, that's so sweet. These two old people who find each other and she, she sees the good in him. And, you know, I know you're not very good at it as being a con man. Your heart's not in it because you're basically a good person.

Ian

Yeah,

Matthew

I don't care that you're trying to sell me. stock in a non existent company.

Ian

It's so sweet, but so sad.

Matthew

And Fred Astaire is so good in that role because he is so expressive. I mean, he's mostly known as a dancer, but that means he's just so physically expressive in so many ways. I always like to see him, especially in some of these roles that he had later on in his career.

Ian

Yes. But we get the scenic elevator making its way down. We get the men taking their turns with the lots they drew on the breaches buoy. We do get the son in law electrical engineer who skipped out on some of the specifications. Bullying his way on, causing a panic, and falling off himself and getting killed.

Matthew

Right. He Which is He rallies up some of the guys with high numbers and says, Why should we wait and and and die in the fire while everybody gets off? And they, like, Rush the breaches buoy and they all try to climb on.

Ian

Mm hmm. And then once they're already in the air and You know, Roger Simmons here is gotten himself sitting in the chair while everyone else is clinging on. We see him start shoving people off to their death in a, in a exact moment of his hubris killing others based on his actions.

Matthew

And then the alien gets him. No, I'm sorry. Then the line breaks.

Ian

Then the line breaks, but that means that that's gone. That, he's kind of our last major hubristic death, I'd say. I guess so. We've got tragic deaths. We've got the tragic deaths. We've got the hubristic deaths. Kind of the last of the hubristic, I think.

Matthew

Yeah. There's, there's kind of heroic, tragic, and hubristic.

Ian

Yeah, I froze up realizing that there's a homestuck reference in there. If your death is heroic or just, there's the only ways you actually die. Otherwise, you're stuck in the story. It's a plot point. I'm like, oh no. Actually, I think that might have been one of the places that referenced Towering Inferno. Anyway, sorry.

Matthew

And it's interesting how that pattern is. The smart, heroic people figure out a way to rescue people and the selfish people destroy that avenue of rescue.

Ian

And as that is happening, the time that it takes to do so causes those who shouldn't have to be in either to be tragically lost.

Matthew

Yes, because the fire is still rising in this building and it's reaching this penthouse event space. Mm hmm.

Ian

Exactly. So they come up with a final grand plan. Yes.

Matthew

Somebody counts the number of pages of the script and realizes, Oh, I guess it's time to wrap up. We can come up with this. And I'm cynical in saying that the, they establish everything they need to very neatly ahead of time, but eventually they come to this, Oh, it's, it's terribly dangerous, but it might work to save at least some people,

Ian

which is blow the towers, water tanks. with some of their plastic explosive and flood the building, dousing the flames.

Matthew

As with most tall buildings, this has giant water tanks at the very top to feed, to pressure feed all the water pipes in the building. And they're just going to blow them up because, and they made a point of showing us those water tanks before. While Doug was figuring out a way to rig the panoramic elevator so it could make one trip. Exactly. We also, we saw the fact that the firefighters have C4 and know how to deal with it.

Ian

Mm hmm.

Matthew

And of course, there's only one firefighter who they're gonna get on this Navy helicopter and drop on the roof to set the C4. And it's O'Halloran.

Ian

O'Halloran, Steve McQueen, coming in again there.

Matthew

And this reunites Doug and O'Halloran, who have been apart since the beginning of the, of the crisis.

Ian

And this is where kind of the, the like action movie hero, action movie hero kind of moment I'd say comes in. Where there's this, this respect back and forth because of that.

Matthew

I understand that there was some friction between Steve McQueen and Paul Newman in making this movie.

Ian

Really?

Matthew

There was a little bit of big dogging and, you know, who's the bigger movie star and who's the bigger action star and

Ian

Oh, goodness.

Matthew

I heard stories about Steve McQueen having the writers or producers add, like, a few lines to his character so that he had the same number of lines. As Paul Newman. And the fact that they're both movie stars who also had a passion for auto racing probably helped that.

Ian

Oh, yeah. . That would make sense.

Matthew

But they play really well in this, movie. And to the extent there was any of that friction, it comes out appropriately in the characters. They work together when they have to. They talk about their differences of opinion and outlook when they can. But yeah, they try this, this, it's dangerous because, it's dangerous because it means an explosion right above the heads of everybody in this room. And dumping millions of gallons of water on them all at once.

Ian

Into a building that we don't know if it'll put everything out. And a lot of glass windows have been broken by explosions. Previous rescue attempts. Panic. There's not a lot of wall left in certain areas. There's a lot of Like, this water could flush people right out. Drop them from the building. Everyone lash yourself to something in the, in the room that's sturdy because you need to weather this.

Matthew

Yes. So we get all the, and it's only the, only the men who are left, people who who didn't have numbers low enough to have gotten out on the breachers buoy. And they're tying themselves down as much as possible. And it is a pretty impressive, catastrophic action scene when they blow these tanks.

Ian

Mm hmm. It is.

Matthew

We get big explosions, we get torrents of water, we get I'm sure reusing some of the techniques we saw used in the Poseidon Adventure to suddenly fill a room in a soundstage with lots of water.

Ian

And wildly enough, this was the one moment where I'm like, I stopped being able to tell where was soundstage, where was Cut and spliced footage where might have been miniatures work. I couldn't tell

Matthew

well I think all of the building exterior stuff is miniatures work and that's done very well

Ian

Mm hmm, but it's so well cropped well put together and so quickly paced with a continuity of action That it blends together into almost more of a sensory rush than a narrative sequence

Matthew

Oh, and this is where it's worth mentioning something about the way this movie was made. It was directed, or at least directed ostensibly, by John Gierman. Mm

Speaker 6

hmm.

Matthew

The opening credits and all the other documentation of the movie recognize that the action sequences were directed by Irwin Allen.

Ian

Ah!

Matthew

Now, Gierman, he's nothing against him. He's a solid director in his own right. But Being given the job of directing everything except the action sequences in an Irwin Allen disaster movie. That is like, we're going to give you a very, very comfortable backseat, Mr. Gehrman. Yes, there's no question of whose movie this really is. This is Irwin Allen's movie and he gets to, Irwin Allen gets to direct these gigantic action and catastrophe scenes. And you talk about the way that it mixes all these different elements, miniatures work and the effects work and the character work.

We're still seeing actors in these scenes. Earlier on in Irwin Allen's career, one kind of thing for which he made a name for himself, especially in TV where budgets were so constrained, was his ability to very, very smoothly put together footage that he shot, and also stock footage, or footage from old movies that they got the rights to, and he did this a lot in the one season of the TV show, The Time Tunnel, where they're in a different historical era every episode.

It's as if he took those, those techniques, the things he learned in that schoolhouse to put together his own pieces and do it so smoothly.

Ian

Yes, he, there's something about the way he uses footage, which is he, he, he uses preexisting footage as a canvas to paint on. Yes. In some ways, where it's like, this gives me the right stuff to be able to tell this story by weaving it into and weaving this in between the sections of what I've got. Almost referentially

Matthew

right and here. It was all stuff that that he shot or blocked out but like you say it's a combination of soundstage work and effects tank work and Miniatures work and it's all very impressive because we see both the the person level danger that all these individuals are in these people we've gotten to know over the course of the movie and The giant force that they are suddenly being hit with in terms of explosions and water

Ian

But the plan works.

Matthew

It does. Not everyone survives. Like you said, there are a lot of broken windows, and people who were not as good as others at tying themselves to things, or just people who were hit by debris from these explosions. Including the bartender.

Ian

Yeah!

Matthew

The bartender is one of these quiet heroes through this entire movie. That was Gregory Sierra playing Carlos, and he did everything from safeguard this old and valuable case of wine to make sure that the kids had ice cream sodas when they finally made it to this party room. And he was, he was the reliable guy taking care of everybody, but he got hit by debris. And and did not survive even as he was tying himself up Duncan, the developer had to come to him and say, do not tie yourself to a box of glass because he was trying to not only lash himself down, but protect this valuable case of wine for his employer.

And at least we saw the decency from his employer, Duncan to say, no, forget about the wine. Take care of yourself, dude.

Ian

Exactly. That was, oh, yeah.

Matthew

So it's another bit of pathos losing him.

Ian

Yeah, but with, the building extinguished and the cleanup now to begin we kind of get the end of each of our vignette sections Duncan grieving with his daughter, promises that this will never happen again, grieving even though he was so mad at his son in law there for the corner's cut, he kind of acknowledges and takes it upon himself that His lackadaisical attitude allowed that to fester

Matthew

in this

Ian

construction. He takes responsibility there.

Matthew

He is. He's grieving his son in law. He's grieving his dream for this building. But you're right. He's also taking responsibility. And we see him looking out for his daughter and caring about her. It's as if this has reminded him of what's important. Another theme that comes back in so many disaster movies. Someone having that epiphany.

Ian

Exactly. We see, Clairborne Fred Astaire's character, hearing about Lizalette's death.

Matthew

Right. And being

Ian

heartbroken. And he's given her cat, which is the cat that was saved. Yes. And is possibly, he's kind of, you know, someone saw me for me and told me I could do good in the world and I don't have to be a con man. I lost her, but there's this little bit of maybe he'll turn his life around kind of thing.

Matthew

He has this cat that was important to her to remember her by and to honor her by taking care of the cat. And kind of seems like a symbol of maybe he can be the kind of person she saw him as before.

Ian

And then finally, the big thing is, you know, Roberts and Chief O'Halloran kind of say that they're going to team up later, partially as a challenge as Chief O'Halloran, it's like, you know, this is going to keep happening until someone asks us how to make these things. And there's this little bit of the architect, okay, I'll take you up on that.

Matthew

Right. That is a great sequence. And it also gives me the impression that, you know, even though he's been through this, or maybe because he's been through this, Doug Roberts is not going to retire after all.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

And he's instead, he's going to work with fire experts like O'Halloran to help make buildings safer.

Ian

And I get that feeling too.

Matthew

I do too. Yeah. Another bit of pathos we have throughout this movie, and it's really emphasized at the end is how many firefighters. are injured or killed during this. And from the very beginning, this movie was dedicated to firefighters and they, they gratefully acknowledge the advice and the participation of, of a lot of area fire departments in helping make this movie. And I think also helping craft that message as well.

Ian

Yes.

Matthew

And I think with that, we might be moving on to our final questions. I think we are. So as we assess this movie overall, so stay tuned for those final questions, folks, where we tell you. Whether we recommend this movie for viewing and also what we think might happen with its future. But in the meantime, if you are enjoying the IMMP podcast and you want more of it, please go to immproject. com where you will find all of our back episodes. And if you're enjoying the podcast and you would like to help support us, please At immproject. com, you'll also find a link to our Patreon, where you can help support us and, starting at 3 a month, get additional audio content. And if you join us at the Movie Club level, you'll get a mystery DVD in the mail from time to time.

Ian

Yep. You ever wanted to experience what I get? With brand new movies coming at random times? Join the movie club. It's actually really fun. And there's plenty of things you're like, Oh, that's where that's from.

Matthew

Surprise. You're watching this now. And then we're going to talk about it. Exactly. Yeah. And and you can also contact us there. You can reach our contact page where you'll find out how to, how to email us, how to send us honest to goodness mail from the U S postal service. And also you can reach us on our discord. We'd love to hear from you there. Join the conversation. And Ian, where can people find you?

Ian

I can be found at ItemCrafting. com or at ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. Come join me! Play some games and paint some minis, build some props. It's a fun time.

Matthew

Your game streams have been a lot of fun.

Ian

Thank you!

Matthew

And you can find me at ByMatthewPorter. com. You'll find links to whatever I'm doing online. And that includes my YouTube channel, which features the Draft House Diaries. Reviews of the movies and food and other parts of every visit to the Alamo Draft House, and there are a shocking number of those, thanks to an Alamo season pass.

Ian

I'm gonna, I'm gonna hype up my dad for a moment here. The Draft House Diaries, even if you're not a person who goes to the Alamo specifically, it is one of the best assessments I've seen online of the going to the theater experience, not just the movie you see. So I think it's an excellent time.

Matthew

Movie theaters are my happy place.

Ian

Okay, side note, we need to make that a shirt.

Matthew

I like that. That's a good idea. Oh,

Ian

yeah. Mm hmm.

Matthew

All right. So, final questions. It's a movie. Is it a screen or no screen?

Ian

It's a screen with caveats.

Matthew

Oh, okay.

Ian

This movie is longer than I would have expected it to be. Honestly, that 165 minute runtime really was taxing as a sit down watch nowadays. It sounds weird because so many other movies nowadays have gotten longer and longer, but this one was a long film and it was a little different to watch because of that. I'm used to my, I'm used to my action and disaster movies being punchier. And this one made it work because it slowed down, but you've got to be ready for that.

Matthew

That's an interesting point you make that, yeah, there are long movies still being made, but not as many. And one of the reasons for that, I think is prestige television. I think making this now, it would have just as good a chance of being a limited TV series. I'm comparing it, I'm not saying that they're at the same level or depth, but comparing this to something like Chernobyl, which is essentially a disaster story. And yet that was a prestige TV series on HBO.

Ian

Yeah, that's definitely the kind of feeling.

Matthew

A three hour disaster movie, almost three hour disaster movie, not too common these days. And yet at the time, you're going, you're paying your money to go into a movie theater in 1974 and see a spectacle. They're going to give you your money's worth, and they're going to keep you there for a while. And if I'm not mistaken, this is one of those long movies. from the early 70s that actually had an intermission.

There was a scene at which it cut to an intermission screen with another movement from the score and you could go out and use the restrooms or get another soda or popcorn and come back and watch the rest of the movies. That used to be a pretty big thing for big movies. And it just never happens anymore.

Ian

I almost can imagine where that intermission was. It wasn't in the version we saw, but still, yeah.

Matthew

And I agree. I would screen this movie. It's good to kind of know what you're getting into in terms of its, its its vintage and all that that implies in terms of its length. The kind of casual carnage it sometimes throws in to this movie. There is not a lot of warning when some of these on screen deaths occur. With all of those caveats, I would say screen. It's still some impressive performances by actors in the midst of all this spectacle. It's an interesting combination, as well as being an artifact of its time.

Ian

Very much an artifact of its time in that sense, too. That's enough of a caveat to always note. Yep. And that brings up

Matthew

our next question, doesn't it?

Ian

Yes. Revive, reboot, or rest in peace? To fill in anyone who hadn't, hasn't listened to our podcast before. Revival is the idea of continuing on from this. This would be the story after the towering inferno and what happened next.

Matthew

Or a prequel. Reboot. Or a prequel. Some story in which what happens in this movie is still canon. It's still part of the same continuity.

Ian

Mm hmm. A reboot would be, tell the story again, but that means you can switch it up, you can change when, you can change pieces of it, but it's still starting the story over, in that sense, re reading the book. And rest in peace is, you don't have to do anything with this, this one can rest, we can let it sit, that can be positive, don't, you know, don't touch it, don't ruin this, that can be negative, there's nothing here to work with. Okay.

Matthew

And in talking about that, it's worth mentioning something about the way this movie came to be. This movie is an adaptation. Yes. It's an adaptation of two different novels.

Ian

Yeah, it's a fusion.

Matthew

Yeah, there was one novel by Richard Martin Stern called The Tower. And then there was another novel called The Glass Inferno by Thomas Scorsese and Frank Robinson. And Warner Brothers had bought the rights to The Tower and Fox. was about to buy the rights to The Glass Inferno. And at some point, people at these studios decided, let's not make competing movies. Let's take these two properties that we've bought separately and co produce one big movie taking elements from both novels That's like yeah commercial art collusion going on there.

Ian

It feels like a movie that had a Voltron sequence And all for the day new mom It's like what is going on here? It's like And that explains a little bit of that structure we talked about early on where it felt vignette like because it's sections of these different stories being put next to each other and established in, in conjunction with each other, but also running parallel and separate in that sense.

Matthew

Yeah, yeah, they took these pieces from different places, kept them fairly separate, and painted over the seams pretty well.

Ian

Pretty well.

Matthew

So, when we're talking about a reboot, then, are we talking about a new adaptation of these novels, or one of them? Are we talking about something that just remakes the movie as it existed?

Ian

, when I'm talking about it, I'm really thinking of The Towering Inferno as two things, one, the movie in and of itself, and two, the concept. And I think you can guess what I'm about to suggest, because I also think it's what you're going to suggest.

Matthew

Oh, I don't, I have a, I have now at this moment thought about what you might be suggesting, but go ahead.

Ian

Okay, I want a reboot.

Matthew

You do?

Ian

Yes. I want a the towering inferno for now. Yeah, I want a modern version with newer technology, newer risks, newer challenges, and bigger buildings. Ah, as I talked about earlier, the idea of what is the tallest building in the world has changed. and what people put into their buildings, expect everything else. Plus, we talked about this being a showcase of firefighting equipment. The breach buoy and the helicopter catches and everything are such a dramatic piece, but there's even newer and wilder tech that a firefighting team might have on hand. Extinguishing grenades, things like that. I could see a new movie, a new version of The Towering Inferno, that is about a, a building built on the cheap by a company who's not putting in the effort to care that goes wrong.

And it would fix one of the biggest plot holes for me in this entire movie.

Matthew

What is that?

Ian

They do a lot of stuff about what's happening with this building. Yeah, and I feel like the threat to all the other buildings adjacent to it in San Francisco is downplayed a giant building like that on fire Exploding will throw flaming debris at other Buildings nearby that might be flammable. There is a bit of a okay We've contained it and the building is the thing on fire and I look at it and say All the other buildings lighting on fire is actually the most terrifying thing, and that doesn't get as much weight as it should. And a movie that has that shown as an extra one of its vignette sections, I think would be good.

Matthew

That is a good point. They, they did seem to have the idea that this building is burning, but they're, they Did not talk about any risk of collapse or bigger explosion or the like, I could figure that given the volume of response from different fire companies that we saw, there were people in the surrounding buildings and in the surrounding buildings had working fire suppression systems, which. This tower did not that they weren't taking care of that off screen, but it would have been nice to at least acknowledge that, that it's not just a risk to the people in this building. It's a risk to this whole neighborhood.

Ian

Yeah, this is this is a building this big on fire is a risk to San Francisco as a whole in some form. Yeah.

Matthew

And you're talking about the the newer technology that would get to showcase in terms of firefighting and the like, you've got you've got me thinking again about Thunderbirds. There was an episode of the newer version Thunderbirds are go that was essentially the towering Inferno it was a giant high tech building and Yeah, that was one of the the our international rescue guys got to work with this high tech Firefighting team and all of their gizmos and all of their their knowledge as well as their bravery and heroism dealing with this fire and That would be fun to see in a big Spectacular disaster movie.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

One thing that, and I would be very interested in seeing that, one thing that gives me pause is an area in which you and I might have different perspectives, because of our ages and our experience, and that is, since 1974 we, our country and much of the world has been traumatized by bad things happening in and to tall buildings. It's very different to watch this movie after September 2001 than it was before. So I think that is an issue. And at the same time, It's almost 25 years since 9 11 2001, so that doesn't mean it's diminished and we don't remember it, but it means that maybe we can once again tell stories that might remind us of that in some way.

And maybe honor some of the people who, who showed heroism at that time in a fictional context.

Ian

And I will say that means that that imagery is different nowadays.

Matthew

Yeah.

Ian

But the core of the story of the Towering Inferno is that imagery being a symbol of Corporate responsibility, greed, and care.

Matthew

Oh, that's a good point.

Ian

The cost to the human life and the individuals and the people when this large building company, this large grand project by an organization bigger than any of these people, is done without thought.

Matthew

Yeah.

Ian

And it was done cutting these corners and focusing on the bottom line and not the long term needs of it and of the people within it. I think that that story hits differently in a modern age, in an age of computers and technology and new communication, in an age where the conversation about corporate responsibility and such is Growing and changing so, so intensely a story of that kind of folly, which is what the towering Inferno is in that sense has extra weight and the imagery issues you bring up and the, you know, the disaster in a giant building and the loss of life things are going to pull up some of that cultural trauma, but mixing that cultural trauma with the discussion already being had.

Might, mean that the Tower of Inferno's best time to get a remake is now, 50 years after this movie came out. When the environment has shifted enough that we need to talk about it again.

Matthew

That's a good point. It, it, stories reference our history. And this is a part of our history that we, we may need to reference to tell stories that we want to tell.

Ian

Exactly.

Matthew

Well, this is what's your,

Ian

you never gave yours.

Matthew

Oh, my, I, I, I agree with you. I say I have a little hesitation that I just described, but I would be interested in a reboot. I'd be interested in 21st century take. On this idea both the as you say the the ideas of the responsibility and the expertise and also The disaster and the response to the disaster Well, i'm glad you found this interesting I wasn't really sure how you were going to respond to this movie, which made me interested to hear your take on it, because it's a kind of movie you don't see much anymore.

Ian

Yeah. Honestly, it's a human disaster movie. So many disaster movies are about using the tech to show the destruction of the city and the destruction of the landmark and such. This one's a lot more person level in that sense.

Matthew

Oh, and that, that's a great point in that we still have disaster movies. It seems to me that disaster movies became In the last 20 years, or maybe a little more, probably a lot more, became more selfish. Disaster movies like the Poseidon Adventure, like the Towering Inferno, they were about the heroism in response to the disasters. But I think of movies from the last, I'm gonna say 30 years, I'm probably, forgetting how long ago some of these movies were made. But I'm thinking of things like Dante's Peak and like the, the 2012 movie with John Cusack.

So much of those, they were so focused on the one little core of characters who we were supposed to care about that what happened to anybody else really didn't matter. And even when our characters did things that put other people in greater jeopardy. For the sake of saving themselves and this little core that we're following, we're supposed to somehow accept that, and it's so anti heroic, not in that we're following an interesting anti hero, it's just non heroic behavior, and we're supposed to accept that in our protagonists.

And I saw too much of that in disaster movies. There are exceptions, but I'm, I'd like to think if we're gonna keep making disaster movies, we're moving away from that and back to the idea of, these are stories that let us show the heroism that people have in response.

Ian

I'm with you. That's another reason why I'd love to see a new version of this.

Matthew

So it was fun talking about this movie.

Ian

Absolutely.

Matthew

And and we are here in December, so I want to reassure any listeners, we have not forgotten about the idea of holiday themes. So we will be back in a couple of weeks. I believe our next episode drops on the 23rd of of December. So you'll be able to go into Christmas Eve. With a, a shiny new intermillennium media project podcast, solidly in our, our Christmas theme.

Ian

Wait a minute, our Christmas theme? Well, yeah. We just watched a movie about a giant disaster happening in a giant building. And all of the threats and dangers therein. What theme are we possibly,

Matthew

we're gonna have a Christmas theme.

Ian

I getcha. I'm excited for our Christmas theme.

Matthew

So we hope you'll join us in a couple of weeks for that additional tale of media from the 20th century.

Ian

And in the meantime, go find something new to watch.

Speaker 6

Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, we have a Christmas theme. Ha ha ha ha.