ZARDOZ

Ian

I am so bothered by the fact that that description fits this one. Because I know, I knew of this movie before you said we were gonna do it, and I was terrified. It's my own history with this movie.

Matthew

Oh, you've got a history with this movie.

Ian

I have a history with this movie.

Matthew

Well, this will be interesting. But listeners, of course, you've seen the episode title. We're talking about Zardoz. Ian (as ZARDOZ): The podcast is good. The movie is weird. Well, my history with this movie is I. I knew I had seen some of this movie, and whatever I had seen had made an impact. And it was, again, I had, I thought, oh, for some reason I never saw the whole thing. I just must have come in to see pieces of it. But no, I did see, I think, the entire telecast of this movie.

Because I saw it on television. It was another Channel 9 million dollar movie on Saturday evening.

Ian

How did they do that?

Matthew

This is a rather disjointed movie to begin with. And clearly they cut it to pieces to put it on television. Sometime 1980, give or take. So, this disjointed fever dream of a movie became even less coherent when you chop it up as much as they did.

Ian

Oh, no.

Matthew

So I knew

Ian

I was being less coherent.

Matthew

I knew I was rolling the dice. I did not know I was going to get this result. Okay.

Ian

Yeah, that that would definitely do a number on this fractional number of already. Yeah, I mean, 1974 science fiction weird head trip. Literally giant floating head trip

Matthew

And as we record this we just saw wicked a couple of weeks ago Oh, yeah that affected my Appearance of this movie. I I did I saw the head flying around and Defying gravity was playing in the back of my mind somewhere.

Ian

Oh, I, oh goodness. See, I know of Zardoz because the review of Zardoz was an early piece of media for when I was in, you know, high school and college. I watched a lot of online reviewers from a variety of groups, mostly a group known as Channel Awesome, who have Since broken apart a lot of the people who I used to watch there have gone other places And I followed them to where they went instead.

Speaker 10

Yeah,

Ian

but one of the people was I'm trying to remember which reviewer, but I believe I've mentioned him before I believe it was Kyle Calgrin and it's a review that he has since removed because he said it was not as good But I watched multiple times his review of Zardoz For being this weird art film Starring Sean Connery soon after having been James Bond, trying to branch out. And so I knew of all the plot points, I knew of the structure, I knew of the, the references and weirdness of this film. I thought. And there's this little piece of me that's like, Oh, Zardoz! That's nostalgic! But not because I ever knew Zardoz. It's because I knew people on the internet going, What am I looking at?

And the thing they were looking at was Zardoz.

Matthew

So you had nostalgia for watching other people who had watched Zardoz.

Ian

Yes, so here I am getting to be the one who has now witnessed it and tell you it's weird, but it's also, I understand the structure and that makes it harder to deal with.

Matthew

Right, you get past the weirdness and the structure is fairly straightforward. It matches a James Bond movie in so many ways.

Ian

It matches a James Bond movie and it does some interesting things plot and structure wise. It's got, I don't, it's got this interesting set of twists in it, and the name is not one of those twists it's kind of one of the, the biggest known secrets of the movie Zardoz is what the name is from, but

Matthew

Yeah, the movie presents it as a big reveal, but it was, I wonder if anybody watched this movie and found that to be a big surprising reveal, what Zardoz means.

Ian

Yeah, Cause we've got Sean Connery as a, a brutal slaughterer, one of the brutals, out in the wastelands, working and worshipping the giant floating stone head known as Zardoz.

Matthew

Yeah, he's one of the brutals, but he has been selected to be one of the exterminators. It takes place in, what is it, twenty 293 I believe they actually give us a specific year.

Ian

Yeah,

Matthew

and it's obviously post apocalyptic How far post apocalyptic is not clear at least two generations, but probably a lot longer

Ian

And yeah, that means that we have two hundred and 68 years to figure out how to make that outfit look good, and they didn't succeed in that amount of time. He is wearing the most ridiculous fantasy outfit, sci fi outfit, ever. Because it's like, thigh high black boots, and an overcomplicated Speedo design.

Matthew

Right, it's some combination of a diaper and a sumo. Wrap and it's in bright red.

Ian

Oh, and it's got like Western bandit bandoliers in the same red.

Matthew

And he's got , this bandoliers. He's carrying around a revolver, but the cartridges in this bandolier are not for that revolver. They are a lot bigger.

Ian

Yeah, he's got shotgun cartridges in here. It's like this man is is go is. Those are not for his gun. Those are for him to, like, jump start, old tractor engines. The type that have that, shotgun insert that you use to start them. It's like, is that what he's doing all the time?

Matthew

Well, I have played survival horror games back on the PS1, where I found a weapon, or even worse, I had a weapon that works and then I upgraded it, and then I found out that, no, this doesn't work with any of the ammunition that I've got. So I can understand deciding I'm gonna have some of every kind of ammunition I can just in case I find that gun.

Ian

Oh, you're absolutely right as well. Zardoz has the biggest PlayStation 1 energy I've seen in a long time. Yes. I don't know if Yeah, it feels like a PlayStation 1 game in that sense.

Matthew

If they ever, I don't know if a game has ever been developed, adapted from Zardoz, but if it were, they'd have to make it retro and make it a PS1 game.

Ian

Oh, that would be so good. That would be so weird. But, very quickly very quickly after that setup, we see our Sean Connery hero, who I believe is called Zed?

Matthew

Yes,

Ian

Zed. Zed.

Matthew

Which made my notes very difficult, because I'll often use initials as I'm making notes while I watch the movie, and we've got Zardoz, and we've got Zed.

Ian

There's, there's a lot of repetition to the zipped.

Matthew

Yes.

Ian

He Like, hops aboard the flying Zardoz head, as it shows up, gives the weirdest speech, and barfs a bunch of guns out.

Matthew

Yeah, the speech is, he's addressing the, exterminators among the brutals, and as you say, he vomits out all these firearms, while telling them that, In very particular language that life is bad and the death and the gun are good.

Ian

Yeah. Okay, if anyone out there can get like loot box opening sounds and send me the clip of it burping up a bunch of guns with that like, ding! It's like, oh, you got a legendary. It's got, it's very much got that, that energy too. But he, he hops aboard the flying Zardoz head. And starts hunting around. Finds one guy in fancy looking robes and shoots him. And that guy laughs his way out the mouth of the stone head.

Matthew

And also, there inside the giant stone head are a bunch of people who without any clothes but shrink wrapped.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

Not sure what that was about

Ian

not sure what that was about preserved for freshness very much right, but it's It's definitely, it's definitely got that like James Bond villain lair kind of vibe, which is so fascinating since Sean Connery, I think, took this to try to not seem like James Bond. But he shoots the guy inside the head and the guy falls out of the mouth laughing, if I remember correctly.

Matthew

Yes. And this is a guy we had seen before in the movie.

Ian

Oh, yeah,

Matthew

because there's a prologue. I don't know if the prologue helps or not.

Ian

Oh, yeah. I forgot his John B. the genie

Matthew

cast play. So we get this guy's head and his he introduces himself as Arthur Frayn and that he is Zardoz and that he's a he describes himself as a magician and says that Merlin is his hero. And he says all this while his head is, his blue garbed head is bouncing around a screen like a Pong simulator.

Ian

Oh, I was, I was chanting for him to like hit the corner. I started getting like DVD logo invested in him just moving around. Yes.

Matthew

And that's where we find out, you know, what's, some vague ideas to at least what year it is and what's happening. So we know he's behind Zardoz, it's not that big a shock to see him inside the head. But it is a little bit of a surprise that the first thing that that Zed does is shoot him.

Ian

Yeah. He's I mean, I mean, we were just told that's what he's been trained to do all his life, It's like, Oh, it was not like, Oh, go talk to the people. It's no, the gun is good. This is kind of set yourself up for that. That's a theme of this movie. You kind of set yourself up for that.

Matthew

Yes, yes. But the head continues on its course. Back to this idyllic valley with a, a lake, and seems like 18th century agricultural community kind of buildings.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

That have been in operation, it's not like they're derelict or anything. Mm hmm.

Ian

And so he touches down in the, this, Well, let's call it, it is this very much hippie community.

Matthew

Yes. Which we learn later is called a Vortex. This is Vortex 4.

Ian

That's interesting. The, the numbering that has some interesting implications. And immediately, Zed is taken by two of the Eternals, the people of the Vortex.

Matthew

And he learns, before he finds any people, he is, he recognizes there's something odd because he finds this upstairs room, which evidently was Frayn's room. Ah, yes. And it has this weird combination, it's got astrology and phrenology and palmistry and also all this weird high tech stuff.

Ian

I forgot about this, because this is where I realized the movie is actually going to be more clever than I was ready to give it credit for. Yeah? Because as he's playing around, he finds this ring with a crystal on it, and it starts giving him information about, you know, all of the different areas and what supplies they have. It's reading this out with this, this robotic voice.

Matthew

Right, and it's listing all the different vortexes and what are their needs and what are their surpluses. Who has extra grain, who needs grain, who needs this or that. It's like it's a computer moderated barter system that keeps the economies of these vortexes going.

Ian

Yes. In doing so, it's projecting stuff on the wall, but he starts flailing this, this crystal ring around, and it starts displaying an eye. And in doing so, he holds it up to look at it, and it projects the eye on his forehead, and it's like, Oh, opening the third eye. This movie is going to talk deep like that. It's going to do that sort of discussion. Okay. Yes,

Matthew

and written on the wall of the room is this great line. In this secret room from the past, I seek the future.

Ian

Ooh, nice line.

Matthew

And for some reason, Zed figures out that he should talk to this crystal ring, and he does, and it's like Siri.

Ian

It is very much siri.

Matthew

So he can ask questions of it. Occasionally, it'll refuse to answer, but it'll answer questions. But I think that's taken away when he is taken by some of the Eternals who live in the Vortex.

Ian

Ah, yes. He does ask like, Oh, what's this here? Flower. Why? Decoration.

Matthew

And out where the Brutals live, there's practically nothing growing. It is utter devastation. Whereas this valley is green and lush.

Ian

Yeah. It is very distinctly, like, post apocalyptic, we bombed everything kind of environment outside. A little Mad Max y. Right.

Matthew

And you get the impression that it has been generations since there was civilization, but there still are standing buildings. People still are wearing the tattered remains of 20th century clothing.

Ian

Yeah. But, , we're seeing a lot of Sean Connery's pony tailed Zed character here. A lot more clever and a lot more understanding quickly. He catches on fast.

Matthew

He does. He does. And the Eternals, they are all beautiful, they are all in great health. They are all in this exquisite, but odd, slightly high tech hippie ish clothing. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Mm hmm.

Ian

This is about a A man who's commonly known to have portrayed a spy being brought into a vaguely utopian and oddly lush environment full of a seemingly idyllic community who use a lot of high tech gizmos to attempt to get information out of him and transport him back into the place using a very unnerving form of rounded transport. Is this the Prisoner again? Did you make me watch the Prisoner again? Because I'm excited if it is, but

Matthew

It is very much that Prisoner kind of vibe. Yes! This is a very similar tone, similar feel.

Ian

Similar feel. This, this definitely has that because the first thing they do when they've got him is toss him onto a Very cold and sterile looking medical bed in a room with mirrored walls and a giant view screen and psychically probe his mind for information about how he got here and what he's doing.

Matthew

And that's where we get some exposition about the brutals and the exterminators and the fact that they were doing all of this at the, the order of Zardoz. And apparently their job was just to go around and kill a bunch of brutals. Seemingly, mostly out of population control.

Ian

Yeah, this is a don't let there be too many people outside. But they're having trouble getting some , information out of him.

Matthew

He's able to resist them more than they expect.

Ian

Mm hmm. And so they decide to instead pull up the last memories of Arthur Frayn, which is him falling out of the head. Just take that clip. Ian (singing): I'm free, Fallin'. Just, just play that all together. But they go to ask like, okay, show us the rest of his information. Not without Arthur Frayn's permission. Oh, he's already started to be rebuilt. And look over to the side and there's a little plastic baby in a bag. But they're like, look, the clone is forming.

They are eternals. Because they are immortally rebuilt if they die.

Matthew

Right. It seems like they can remain in healthy youth forever. But if some accident befalls them, their memories are being recorded and can be put into a new body when needed.

Ian

Yeah. So that already kind of sets up the wild extent of the technology they've got. Where we jump from, they've got, , resource Alexa over here, to we're being given, psychic projections and memory recordings. And each of the bits of technology keeps advancing faster.

Matthew

And they're also all linked in some way. That might have something to do with the ring, but it seems beyond that. They don't have to sleep, they just engage in second level meditation, which involves linking their minds together.

Ian

And there's some divide, though, it seems, between the various groups of the Eternals. There's actually quite a bit of divide. . Because various of them have grown. insane or apathetic with eternal life. And that means that we've got the active ones who are doing things and then we've got a home full of absolutely out of their mind Eternals who have just lost all connection and there's a group that are just laying there motionless and not doing anything.

Matthew

And among the the active and healthy Eternals there's a difference of opinion as to what to do with this infiltrator, this brutal Zed. There's May, played by Sarah Kastleman, who is kind of a scientist, and she's curious, and she wants to study Zed, and learn something from him. And then there's Consuela, played by Charlotte Rampling. Who, who thinks he is a danger, and he's awful, and we should just terminate him immediately. And there's that tension throughout at least half of the movie and eventually the Immortals, they, the Eternals, they, they learn from May and from Consuelo is going on and they take a vote and they decide, we'll keep him around for a few weeks before we terminate him.

So we'll learn something and then we'll terminate him to clean things up. So he's got a ticking clock and some time to do whatever it is he wants to do and survive and learn.

Ian

But with that ticking clock established He is immediately approached by Friend.

Matthew

Yes, the conveniently named Eternal named Friend. Yeah,

Ian

played by John Alderton, and I, I swear I've seen John Alderton in something else. I'm trying to think of what. I am sure we have. Yeah, I, I want to say it was like a TV show thing, but I'm not sure what. Or maybe he's just got one of those faces. I'm trying to figure that out.

Matthew

He's been, I don't know that I've seen any of his movies, but he's been in a lot of BBC stuff in Yeah. Either leading or supporting roles. And I know I've seen him over the years. He had a recurring role in upstairs, downstairs, you know, this is back close to when this this was back in the early seventies. A lot of roles on BBC anthology series, like Tales of the Unexpected.

Ian

I might have just seen clips from those things, but he's, he's, he's got such an amazing presence, I'll get, I'll say.

Matthew

He does, and he's got this, this sort of, it seems very British to me, this sense of, he's very intelligent and witty and cannot be bothered to use any of that because he doesn't care. He just wants to not be bored.

Ian

Mm hmm.

Matthew

And he's one of the ones who says, let's keep this brutal around for a while, anything to alleviate the boredom. Mm hmm. So we do have bits of there's there's some people feeling the boredom of immortality

Ian

And the fact that he's there, Stealing the scene from Sean Connery It says so much and friend becomes Zed's Guide through the communities of the Eternals. Mm hmm he has Zed pull a cart that has him in it as they go do a delivery. Yeah,

Matthew

because it seems like all the Eternals do, they, they, they require themselves to do some menial labor, and most of it is, involves baking bread. And as we learn, it's, they're baking bread using wheat or grain that has grown by brutals on the outside, forced labor at the hands of the exterminators under the, Orders of Zardoz and all that grain comes back to let them bake bread and they distribute this bread Because as you said, friend explains to Zed about the Apathetics who are just sort of catatonic who don't say or do or respond to anything.

They're they look like the healthy young Eternals, but that's it. And then the renegades, who seem to be in a, an old, I don't know if it's an amusement park or a retirement home or both. Yeah. But they are old, they have aged. And they're all senile, eternal senility is their sentence. Mm hmm.

Ian

Because that's what punishment is. Aging. When you've got an immortal society that can do whatever the, the the punishments for breaking the law are aging.

Matthew

Right, you're gonna get six months for that. Not six months in jail.

Ian

No, it's, you are immediately aged six months. That's odd, because it makes me wonder if there's a way to undo that. Is it only ever a forward process? I don't think we ever see anyone made younger, but I guess you'd just be remade, and not aged forward.

Matthew

I guess so. I guess so. Spoiler, we later meet Arthur Frayn again, and he's back to the age he was before, so evidently they can do speed aging to bring someone back to the prime of their life if they've been killed. I suppose they could do something similar to that to give someone a a younger body if they needed to be If they'd previously been aged and needed to be rewarded, I don't know why they'd do that, but I suppose they could.

Ian

But yeah, there's this pretty much perpetual party happening in this insane asylum old folk's home home of renegades. And they deliver bread to there, but Friend talks Zed through all of the things that are happening to the Eternals.

Matthew

And we do learn, partway through the movie, who these Renegades are. These were the first generation. Yeah. These were the scientists and thinkers who created the system under which the Eternals are living. But they were not born to immortality. They were already adults, and they couldn't deal with it. And they, they did not stay in their middle aged forever, like they were when this whole, all started. They eventually became these aged, immortal, but senile and old renegades.

Ian

Yeah, there was that. This was the first, these were, this was the first group, and this is the cost they paid.

Matthew

I'm finding myself thinking about a weird analogy to other technologies, like the internet and such. It's, there's one experience of the people who lived through its invention. And there's another experience we're built into the world in which this is the way things work.

Ian

Oh, that's a good description. Absolutely. It's, it's very much a parallel to things like that. Where, what is considered brand new and what is considered commonplace can have such an impact.

Matthew

Because the generation that we see, most of the Eternals, like Friend, they don't know anything else. This is just what life is. It's eternal and we're healthy and beautiful.

Ian

There's one other main issue that is plaguing the Eternals. That's the fact that there are no more Eternals.

Matthew

Right. Yes.

Ian

Their apathy extends to the fact that they've not been Having families, giving birth, making more people. Yeah.

Matthew

I want to step in and say, I don't know if anybody listens to this with their kids. We might wind up discussing things. You want to listen to this later?

Ian

Mm hmm. And I think we're gonna step around the way they show and describe this in the film. Yes. A little more carefully. But, simply put, there's a lot of stuff that the brutal society outside has. The Eternals don't, and they are curious about that, and so they are continuing to probe Zedd's mind, but it is not just for, how did you get here? But it's starting to be, maybe you're a solution to Our population stagnation, maybe you're a solution to our lack of our own farming, things like that.

They start searching Zed's mind for other topics in that sense.

Matthew

And whether or not this, this population stagnation is a problem seems to be a, a point of disagreement among the Eternals. I mean, it's on the one hand, it's everybody, nobody dies. We've got the definition of a stable population. If no, if no one's born and no one dies. And yet. There's also the irony of you've got this population of healthy, beautiful people in the prime of life and sex doesn't exist. Yes. Because it doesn't have to and like they barely remember what this is or how this works.

Ian

Mm hmm. They've spent so long meditating and thinking of the grand sciences and such that they stopped living.

Matthew

Right. And May seems to be the scientist who thinks, you know, there's, there's something we have lost and there are risks and we need to at least know more than we do. And Consuela is the one who sees this as a danger. You're going to upset this delicate balance. We need to get rid of this outside influence as soon as we can.

Ian

And as they study Zed, Not just for, how did you get in here, but over this week, they start noticing there's a lot more to him than they thought. And this is where there's actually a twist for us, I'd say. Yes. Where we start seeing that Zed can read.

Matthew

He can.

Ian

Zed understands. the, the systems and the politics and the philosophy that are being talked around him, because they never thought he'd understand it if they talked it to him.

Matthew

Yeah, they were treating him as not quite human. And May actually reveals at some point as she continues her investigations, biologically, neurologically, he is superior to the Eternals. Yeah. Greater intellectual capacity and greater physical. Fitness and ability.

Ian

He's better than them, and that's scary in its own right to the Eternals.

Matthew

Yes. It's fascinating to May, it's scary to some of the Eternals. And we also learn that this was part of Zardoz's plan. Zardoz apparently was the person among the Eternals who was given the job of managing what's happening on the outside. So he came up with , let's create a giant floating stone head god to keep people in line. Let's create the, the corps of exterminators to keep down the brutal population. And he also had essentially this planned breeding program, which. Unfortunately, it was mostly conducted via sexual assault, which was made part of the culture of the of the exterminators.

Ian

That is a disturbing and Yeah.

Matthew

And,

Ian

Unfortunately focused part.

Matthew

It was. I mean, I understand story wise it's supposed to be horrible, they're presenting it as horrible, presenting it as what Zed was was trained for and eventually overcame but still it's it's still not a pleasant thing to encounter in a movie. I'm not crazy about that

Ian

Yeah,

Matthew

but but this was all part of the plan. It's as if Arthur Frayn realized that We're going to spiral into destruction if there's nothing new if there's nothing happening. So I need to do something on the outside And also he's the one who came up with, well, we're gonna starve, so we better not just kill as many brutals as we can, we better turn them into slaves and after we enslave them, make them grow wheat for us.

Ian

Mm hmm. And we also get this very fascinating scene of Zed being lured during one of the hunts. Into an old library.

Matthew

Yes. And it's

Ian

this scene they keep going back to.

Matthew

Right, this was a turning point for him and they give us a little bit more of the scene every time they show it to us in his memory.

Ian

Because he was lured in and found the books and found a children's book that taught him letters. And then he worked his way up from there. You, it implies that he spent months. Right, in this old library. Reading in this library.

Matthew

And lured in by someone we never see, but who is clearly, you know, bringing him into this place in order to teach him these things.

Ian

Yes. But the one book that he finds that breaks him is The Wizard of Oz. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, and that's where he realizes the fakeness of his overlord, Zardoz, and he's hardened into figuring out what's going on here. But we get that origin bit by bit as they keep on investigating him and finding pieces of this moment where he learned stuff, but he pushes back in ways they are not expecting.

He mentally can deal with their psychic assessments.

Matthew

And he forms this little Secret society within the exterminators, people who are, more intellectually capable as he is and they make this plan to infiltrate, wherever Zardoz comes from. Let's find out what's behind this because we don't now, we no longer believe what is shown on the surface. That's a huge breakthrough. Before that, everything was exactly as it seemed to be. Giant floating head from the sky, gives us guns, and tells us to kill people and grow wheat. Why would we do anything else?

Ian

the weirdest game of Catan ever. I will trade wheat for gun. Sorry, the way that you just said it.

Matthew

Oh, the Catan. Zardoz edition would work.

Ian

Would work.

Matthew

Yeah, you just have tiles for all the different vortexes.

Ian

Yeah, trade wheat for gun. It works. Oh no.

Matthew

You have a an app, an app on your phone to assess surpluses and needs.

Ian

Oh yeah. And of course, if you roll a seven, you move the stone head to another thing.

Matthew

That's right. That would work disturbingly well.

Ian

It would. It would work disturbingly well. Oh. Oh, man. Oh. They get a lot of use out of the footage of, Sean Connery ripping the paperback copy of The Wizard of Oz and throwing the pages. They do. They love that scene. They love it in slow motion.

Matthew

It kind of looks like a shot from a early 90s music video.

Ian

Yes! It's got that Corridor perspective down the rows of books. It's got him in a weird outfit, and it's got him doing these moves that are exaggerated to the point of almost dancing.

Matthew

Listeners, if you have seen Zardoz and you have an idea as to what music, what song, should be put to that shot to make that early 90s music video, let us know. I really want your ideas on that.

Ian

Oh, yes. Zed is learning more and more about the Eternals, and figures out how much the AI system is also aware of things and changing stuff because it starts to like, get in his way, I think, during some of this. Yes. Right.

Matthew

And he learns that there is this, the tabernacle, there's been all this talk about the tabernacle, and that is the center of our society, that's what makes everything work. And eventually he realizes, or learns, the tabernacle is like a central computer system that is connected to these rings, and is connected to the fact that they have this mind link. And that's what's running everything, and maintaining the vortexes, is the tabernacle.

Ian

And, I the vortexes, they've got giant invisible shielding around them so that no one can find them. They've got, this advanced cloning system. They've got all this water purification stuff, I believe, and everything else. These are advanced bubble societies. There's a little bit also of the, the Logan's Run kind of bubble environment stuff going on.

Matthew

There is. This is very much in that kind of tradition of Logan's Run, or even the time machine with the Eloi and the Morlochs Eloi who don't really understand the The system that allows them to survive. Same thing with the Logan's run people. And Brave New World, this sort of the, the infantilizing effect of a, a high tech life of ease.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

So it becomes a search for the tabernacle, because he realizes that's the key to bringing this system down. And he is absolutely planning and prepared to bring this system down. You mentioned the barriers. He's got his squad of, of special secret society exterminators waiting outside. He goes and, and communicates to them through sign language because they can't hear each other through the barrier.

But they're just waiting for their chance to come in and and mess things up.

Ian

Yes. He's got his crew outside, he just needs to get them.

Matthew

Eventually it's sort of, you could say that Consuela is proven correct. Because Zed's, merely Zed's presence, Messes things up entirely, and we've got May, who, who wants to incorporate what Zed has to offer in, in a number of ways, and Consuela, who realizes this is a horrible danger to our civilization, and it, it devolves into violence, and uh, Consuela is leading a group to hunt down Zed. While May is trying to save him, trying to learn from him, eventually May makes this deal with Zed, where they're going to psychically teach him everything they know, and give him all of their knowledge and information. In exchange for which

Zed is going to impregnate May and all of her friends. Yeah. So they can have babies for the first time in who knows how long.

Ian

And as he gets all this knowledge, he also, he, becomes more of a threat to the AI system, the Tabernacle.

Matthew

And he discovers that the Tabernacle is a crystal that's been hidden away.

Ian

Mm hmm. It's this like, light based computer. But there's this interesting moment where him, in a scene that is, looks like him just on his own, talks to the ring he got early on. And it's got this back and forth villain monologue with him.

Matthew

Yes.

Ian

There's a good bit of Lord of the Rings in this too. What with, you know,

Matthew

Oh!

Ian

I find a magic ring that is connected to a great all seeing presence. Away in a land that you have not been to before, then take a journey, meet the many peoples there, including grand immortals who are becoming bored with life, and defeat the evil at its home with its own ring as part of your, your tools.

Matthew

Yeah, there is, there is an aspect of that sort of, of focused quest storyline here as well. Mm hmm. And that's fascinating about this. It seems so completely bizarre, and yet its underlying structure is very understandable and very sound. Wow.

Ian

If you sit back and let this movie wash over you, it is bizarre beyond belief.

Matthew

And you can understand how utterly incomprehensible it seemed when they had to cut out a lot of the language, a lot of the nudity all of the things that made this inappropriate for local television broadcast, even in the 1970s.

Ian

That's right, everybody. If you've been playing the Intermillennium Media Project board game alongside this, you can mark off another. Matthew was too young to watch this, I think.

Matthew

Well, I was, for this, I say the early 70s, I said the late 70s. It was probably, I was in, I was in high school, maybe college. I may now still be too young for this. I don't think I was quite too young when I saw this on Channel 9.

Ian

Uncheck that box then. It sounded like we were hitting one of those records that we have.

Matthew

Now, this one didn't, wouldn't matter how old I was, seeing this, especially seeing it chopped up for local TV, incomprehensible.

Ian

Incomprehensible. But Sean Connery's Zed has a mirror maze trip.

Matthew

Yeah, he sort of goes inside the crystal. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very much the same kind of scene we get with, you know, whether it's Enter the Dragon or something wicked this way comes. That trope of the Pursuit of a villain through the mirror maze.

Ian

But he comes, it comes from all these different directions and fires his pistol. And Destroys the AI from the inside. Although I really do love that the AI, upon being shot, says, You have killed me. I am dead. It feels very much like, I'm playing dead now. Please leave.

Matthew

And at some point he has to take the crystal back to the Renegades. Because he finds, like, the oldest renegade, still alive, but barely. He's the person who invented it. He invented the tabernacle. He was the mastermind behind all of this.

Ian

Oh, yeah!

Matthew

And all of the Eternals we've met are the second generation, the children of the people who founded it.

Ian

Oh, that has the best and funniest scene because it's him the flashback of him making it and it's a I have built this device that will give us knowledge and immortality and I have made it to be never turned off in case we ever change our mind,

Matthew

right? We won't know what it is we did so that we can't undo it.

Ian

It's that, that hubris is so perfect. It's just like, like, I am making, I'm making a statement now that this will be a okay forever. Immediately cut to him. It was not okay.

Matthew

Right, yes, it's like that sitcom smash cut, you know. Yeah, turns out I did want to turn it off.

Ian

You just get the, like, the, the, the script font and the sound from like Always Sunny in Philadelphia. I've never watched that show, but I just know the format. It's like, you know, you know, we made this to never turn it off, and we never can, but Eternals wish they could turn it off is the episode title.

Matthew

Yes. He's, he's

Ian

turned off the perception filters and force fields and shut down the AI that remakes them. The Eternals suddenly are being invaded. . By the Brutals from outside.

Matthew

And they realize they are no longer immortal. Apparently it was something about the connection to the Tabernacle that made their current physical bodies immortal. And yeah, also that recorded their memories so that if they died through violence, they could be remade So and and the movie ends with this literal orgy of violence Yeah, it's the gathering of the immortals all talking about the Eternals that wanting to die asking Zedd and the other Exterminators who come in to kill them and it's shot in a very They eroticize the violence of all these deaths in a strange and disturbing way.

Ian

Very disturbing way. And the massacre happens, and the Eternals die, but a lot of the Brutals are not, there's some of the crazy wild men that they thought the Brutals were, but Plenty of the brutals who come in are also the advanced people that Zed had been working with. They are part of his, his secret society.

Matthew

Yeah, they are, are the first wave at least. They're all exterminators, and they're all, and they seem to be the ones who were selected by Zed for this mission, so to speak.

Speaker 7

Mm hmm.

Matthew

What happens next is not at all clear? No?

Ian

Does, does, does Zed retire with Consuela into the giant head?

Matthew

Oh, right. Is that into the giant head or did they just find a cave somewhere?

Ian

I thought it was inside the cave that was the Zardoz head.

Matthew

It might be. And it's yeah, and it's with Consuela who sort of has a change of heart here. And May and her friends who made this deal earlier. With with Zed have, have ridden away to somewhere else, so they're gonna have their children and set up some other society, apparently.

Speaker 10

Mm hmm.

Matthew

But yeah, the, the end, the epilogue of this is Zed and Consuela going off into you might be right, inside the, the head where they, they make their home. They have a son. We watch this son in a time lapse. We watch this son grow to manhood as they grow old. Mm hmm. And turn into skeletons, and after the son has gone away.

Ian

And it's just, like, the empty house they made inside this cave, and Zed's old gun.

Matthew

Yes.

Ian

End of film.

Matthew

So something about whatever happens next, it has to do with, rebirth, with, children, and a new generation. Whether it's May and her friends, or it's the son of Zed whatever this person finds when he leaves the cave.

Ian

Yeah, that's a wild way to end a wild movie.

Matthew

And it's very much in that tradition of 70s artsy surreal social slash environmental commentary. It's very much a genre from that period of time, or sub genre. Mm

Ian

hmm.

Matthew

And yeah, I'd say the prisoner was an early harbinger of that.

Ian

Yeah, that's accurate.

Matthew

So yeah, this was an odd experience.

Ian

Odd experience to be sure.

Matthew

And I, I guess if we discuss this too much more, we're going to be going into our final questions, won't we?

Ian

Yeah, so, thank you for joining us so far.

Matthew

Yes, and stay tuned for those final questions when we talk about whether this is worth your time, and what else we think we might want to see done with this. But in the meantime, If you're enjoying the Intermillennium Media Project, please go to immproject. com. That's where you'll find links to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcasting application, or just go directly to Spotify or any of those. And if you want more of the Intermillennium Media Project, you'll find all of our back episodes, including our previous episode about Sean Connery in Dr.

No, which is weirdly, structurally similar to Zardoz.

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

We would love to hear from you, so if you would like to contact us, you'll find our contact page, where you will be able to email us at immpcast at Gmail. com. You'll also be able to go to our Discord or send us physical mail through the United States Postal Service. And if you want to support the InterMillennium Media Project, you'll find a link to our Patreon. Starting at just $3 a month, you'll get not only uh, the knowledge that you're supporting whatever I'm doing to Ian on this podcast, but also you'll get additional bonus audio content. And at the movie club level, you'll also get a mystery DVD in the mail periodically.

Ian

Hey, come see what it's like to be me on this. Join the movie club and you too can have the fun of sitting down and just finding out about stuff you've never seen before.

Matthew

And if you're a fan of the IMMP or of The Prisoner or Space 1999 or these things you might also want to go to the shop that is linked on IMMproject. com

Ian

Mm hmm.

Matthew

And Ian, where can people find you?

Ian

I can be found as ItemCrafting most places, be that ItemCrafting. com or ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. Come join me every Thursday for games, crafting, and fun.

Matthew

And you can find me at ByMatthewPorter. com, where you'll find my blog, you'll find a link to my YouTube channel, where I do reviews of movies and movie theater experiences and strange travel destinations.

Ian

Mm hmm.

Matthew

So, final questions about Zardoz. Um. Screen or no screen, what do you recommend for our listeners, Ian?

Ian

No screen. Zardoz is too weird. That's the problem. We made it sound coherent. Because breaking, that's the weirdest thing. Zardoz, if you crack any single piece off of it, interesting and fascinating and seems to be well made. Any fragment of Zardoz, Is bigger than the sum of the whole of Zardoz.

Matthew

It's a fractal, just like the Tabernacle Crystal.

Ian

Absolutely. As a whole, Xardas is incomprehensible and too weird to watch. And I don't suggest it.

Matthew

Yeah, you know, I'm gonna say that as well. No screen. Mm hmm. If you're the kind of person who is going to watch this movie and should watch this movie, you're going to watch it regardless of what I say, so my general statement is going to be no screen. I don't recommend anybody do this for an hour and 45 minutes.

Ian

Yeah, no.

Matthew

But that opens up our next question. Revive, reboot, or rest in peace? Do we want to see a sequel or a prequel or something else in this continuity? Do we want to see a reboot, a remake of this in some way? Or do we just want to leave this where it is and back away slowly?

Ian

Okay, I'm trying to figure out what a sequel would even be.

Matthew

I mean, I guess we could see what's going to happen with with Zed and Consuela's son. We can see what's going to happen with Mei and her group and their offspring.

Ian

Yeah, we could do a prequel about you know, this, this design from the inside of the immortals. Yeah. Of how to create the, their own destruction because this one guy doesn't trust it and he's got a, a flair for classic literature. But not sure about that. I'd be scared of a remake because I think that this is too seventies. This is too mid 70s to be able to be remade in any other era.

Matthew

Weirdly enough, the one thing that seems to have the most potential to me would be adapting it into some kind of game. And we talked about that a little bit. You make a PS1 vintage adventure game based upon this, or a variant of Catan based upon the Vortex system. There are little ideas or moods within this. That could lend themselves to a game of one kind or another

Ian

there's there's potential in there for adaptation like that absolutely

Matthew

I don't think we need a reboot as a movie yeah partly because as we said it is in a particular tradition of movie and there have been plenty of those made and there still will be that division of society and the infantilized high tech and mortals and all this it's it's not that unique that we need to retell this exact story so

Ian

I think I'm saying rest in peace.

Matthew

Yeah, me too.

Ian

I will give it this though. I'll give Zardoz this though. It has given us the best short way to create the title of your new trippy sci fi film ever. Find yourself a piece of classic literature, drop half the letters, that's your title. It's like, you know, Oh, no, no, no, no, you know, you're thinking of Mary Poppins. I'm making airy pins. Nothing else. Just running with it. You can do that. You can have fun.

Matthew

Yes. Yes. Beware the ording as Lord of the Rings. And we chopped some letters off of it. Exactly.

Ian

I I, it , I'm giving it, I'm giving it a hard time here, but honestly that, that most evident twist is interesting. I'm, I feel like someone could get inspired to make something new that's nice out of Zardoz, but I don't want them to have to go through Zardoz to do it.

Matthew

Right, right. Can we just sidestep that in some way?

Ian

Yeah.

Matthew

To put this in some more context though, this was directed and created by John Borman. Yes. And not a super prolific director, but an influential director. And this is not the first John Borman movie we've watched for the podcast.

Ian

It's not?

Matthew

No, it is not.

Ian

Oh, what other films did he

Matthew

he also directed Excalibur.

Ian

Oh, that makes sense.

Matthew

Doesn't it? And that's why I sat up and took notice at the very beginning when Arthur Frane's bouncing head talked about the fact that he's a magician and Merlin is his hero. Oh, is, is John Borman's Excalibur some kind of a spiritual sequel to Zardoz?

Ian

Oh, no. What if Zardoz is a prequel to Excalibur, literally?

Matthew

A prequel!

Ian

What if they're actually connected? What if they're getting a like, Zardoz is the future past, and the society born of these odd immortals who had advanced technology, but it all burned and they fled, turns into A growingly medieval society built on the structures they'd already done of a peasant class on the outside and the, the noble nobility in their castle. And that turns into a, a world of medieval fantasy that has these little bits of advanced. Possibility and advanced technology available to select few that can still use it. Creating magicians like Merlin in an Excalibur setting. And ancient weapons of swords with grander properties.

Matthew

That explains what we said when we talked about Excalibur, how Nicole Williamson as Merlin seemed like he was in a completely different movie from everybody else. Oh yeah! Which really worked for the character. He was not totally of this world. But maybe it's because he was from another movie.

Ian

Yeah! It's like, dude, I just saw Sean Connery wear the weirdest thing. You're in a suit of armor? That's not weird. I've seen weird.

Matthew

Yeah. I've got to think about that. Okay.

Ian

Oh, but overall, I'm glad you showed me this, because that, that bit of entertainment history for me of watching old reviews of odd movies, and Zardoz being one of them, Seeing it now, I appreciate the fact that I get to be the one getting to talk to our wonderful audience now about movies and maybe introducing them to stuff they never have and maybe shouldn't see.

Matthew

Or, yeah, warning them off of things. We watch it so you don't have to kind of thing.

Ian

Exactly.

Matthew

Yeah, this was interesting. It's it I knew it was going to be an experience of one kind or another. And, uh , I don't recommend the movie, but I'm glad we did this.

Ian

Exactly.

Matthew

And I think that'll be it for this episode of the Intermillennium Media Project. Thank you again for joining us, and we hope that you will join us again in a couple of weeks for more tales of media from the 20th century.

Ian

And in the meantime, go find something new to watch.